Talk:Castle Age Wiki Projects/POWER
I'd like to point out that you should attempt to make as many attacks as possible with the exact same setup. The wider the random variance, the more attacks are necessary to achieve the variance, and without achieving the correct (or assumed correct) variance range with the exact same setup, data becomes significantly less useful, as the wider the random damage range is, the less accurate an individual piece of attack data is in determining anything other than ballpark numbers. Schubaal 16:28, January 15, 2010 (UTC) = Hero Bonuses = Information given to me by a friend has thrown a known issue into a massive mess of unknown: my Zarevok does roughly 500 more damage than Vanquish against Mephistopheles, but his Vanquish does roughly 200 more damage than his Zarevok. This poses a very big concern, as such a huge difference between these results makes it very difficult to determine much about hero attack bonuses vs monsters. Information from others on this issue (specifically against Mephistopheles, for consistency's sake) will be very helpful. My current hypothesis is that heroes may have a hidden demi-alignment, and your demi-alignment (which is automatically and randomly assigned, and you can't check it outside of the Battle page) affects which heroes perform better for you. Obviously verifying something like this is next to impossible, so hypothesis it very well could remain. Schubaal 21:34, January 22, 2010 (UTC) *Hmm... this is strange indeed. Just out of curiosity, are all heroes in question Level 4? If not, then it could be that Mephistopheles is a monster where Defense is taken into account. And if that is true, then a level 4 vanquish could actually deal less damage as she levels up. So if not all the generals were level 4 when this happened, it might be that. If not, this is going to make this project a whole lot more fun... Vincent The Frugal 21:23, January 24, 2010 (UTC) *I'm only leaving this here because I am unsure where alse to leave it...but I feel it is something you need to know. I was engaged in a monster fight as a lvl 75..I believe it was against the Skaar. I had the Excaliber, Inferno Shield, Volcanic Helm (switches to Virtue of Fortitude for defense), Deathrune Signet, Zenarean Chainmail, Lightning Storm, and Icy Handguards. My attk was at 150 and def was at 40. I forgot what I was hitting at but it didnt seem that much. I was 2nd in my lvl bracket..always curious about the guy above me I checked him out and he was only a lvl 72...and this is it...this guy was hitting for an INSANE amount of damage...practically the same as the 150+ lvls...I mean he was already up in the millions before most of them so I messaged him tryin to get some schooling so he checks me out...comes back sayin that MY equipment is way better and my attack is almost 100 more than his. Neither of us could figure out how he was hitting for the amount he was. Still can't. I am such a supporter of this site 'cause I know if anyone can figure it out it'll be you guys. If you read this and want to get back with me..(Ill find out who his general was) please feel free..(rasta4i@rocketmail.com) Ma-halo and Aloha! ~Jeff Kali Boisvert * I personally am not convinced that Equipment Defense is factored into damage. I think it would be more efficient if you had players list their Equip Attack and Defense in 2 separate columns. This way you can analyze the numbers to try and see if equipment defense is actually contributing, and if it is determined that it isn't then you havent wasted an enitre set of data because you can't separate the Equip Atk vs Def later. Volthar 19:53, January 25, 2010 (UTC) :I agree with Volthar, however I am curious about how equipment stats figure into the equation for attacking/fortifying. Is it converted directly to "equipment attack power" using the 70% rule then applied to the equation, or is equipment stats added to player stats, then applying the attack sum and defense sum to calculate damage done? Therefore, in addition to Volthar's suggestion, I feel that "equipment attack power" should also be separated to "Equipment Attack" and "Equipment Defense" for Power Attacks as well. : 13:40, January 28, 2010 (UTC) SilentKyl ::Ugh... I suppose you're right, and that we should separate equipment attack/defense. The reason why we think Battle Power is important, is because the game picks the items with the most Battle Power, not the items with the most attack (when attacking). I really didn't want to think about the game only using the attack, if it picks weapons based on Battle Power. Considering the fact that Castle Age likes to reuse code whenever possible, I just assumed that they wouldn't set up a mechanic that uses an item's stats when everywhere else they are used used their Battle Power. ::If the game does do this kind of horrible thing where it only uses an item's Attack, but selects weapons based on Battle Power, it will (annoy) many people who have items with great attack who can't use them because they also have items that have better Battle Power. It would also cause us to throw out a whole bunch more data, which I particularly hate doing. I just don't see the Castle Age doing this without saying anything. Why wouldn't they just cut and paste the Dueling mechanics for the items used? Plus, this means a whole lot more work for the nice people who goes and compiles the Level 1 data into Level 2 data. I think we should wait before we add equipment Attack and Defense to each tableVincent The Frugal 22:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::In my personal testing, I've already verified that it does, in fact, count equipment attack and 70% of equipment defense a couple of times, but it never hurts regardless. Schubaal 06:56, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :: (So... attack and 70% defense... that's battle power. Matches up to my findings as well ;p. Vincent The Frugal 01:21, February 11, 2010 (UTC)) ::The thing you may not know, is that we will have to restart the POWER project a few more times anyway. I don't want to say this on the project page, but here is the general plan for the POWER Project: = General POWER Project Plan = #Get the project started as stated in the Project Plan. Get numbers to get a better idea of what the formula is. Find flaws and address them #Restart project. ##Confirmed that there's something weird going on with generals. ###Find out which generals don't cause any problems for monsters. ###Ask people to only use those generals. ##The game isn't being truthful about how Equipment affects the battles ###Equipment doesn't just add up the Attack of your equipment, and adds that number to your damage output ###The game picks equipment based on battle power, not Attack ###Ask people to post the battle power of their equipment to test and see how equipment affects the battle. ####Option 1: Battle Power is factored in to X ####Option 2: Battle Power is a new variable: Y. Y is Battle Power * Constant (different for each monster) ####Option 3: Equipment doesn't do anything ##Vincent (I refer to myself in the 3rd person when making plans) goes and tests every hero to find which heroes have odd bonuses against monsters #Restart Project ##Find Flaws in last set up and address them ##Use the Hero information Vincent (and Lochraine) found. ###Remake POWER project in a way so that there are multiple tables under each monster. 1 table for heroes without a special bonus, and 1 table for each hero with a special bonus against that monster. Use this to confirm the bonuses that each hero gives. ###Theories on special hero bonuses ####Some heroes deal a bonus + Z Damage ####Some heroes deal a bonus Z * Constant. #####Constant may be tied to your stats. Possibly to something really weird like Health or Energy. #####Constant may be based on equipment. *Shudder* ##Look over Equipment info generated from the last round of the project ###Are any of the above theories correct? ###If not: ####Is the game doing that horrible thing where is selects items based on Battle Power, but only Factors in Attack? ####New Theory here once we see the data. ##Remake all tables, and have it ask for the following things: ###Max Health ###Max Energy ###Max Stamina #Restart project (Maybe) ##Find flaws in last set up, and fix them (if there are any by this point) ##If (Max Health/Energy/Stamina) does seem to matter, remake table to ask for: ###Current Health ###Current Energy ###Current Stamina #??? #Profit! The plan is set up like this to make it as easy as possible to compile the data. Only testing a few variables for each time the project is restarted. I think it's really, really unlikely that the game uses just the attack of your equipment/magic. So unlikely, that it's not worth throwing out a bunch of data until we have to restart the project anyway. I know I'm kind of being a jerk for just doing this the way I want to, but if you can give me a reason to make the change to include equipent Attack and Defense before the next restart, let me know and I'll consider it. But it had better be a good argument to overcome my laziness ;p. Vincent The Frugal 22:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC)